SPEAKER_01 0:00

So people do not act differently from their identity. There's very few training and coaching certifications that train coaches and trainers how to do identity level work, how to do values levels work, how to do belief levels work.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

You are listening to an NLP podcast brought to you by Next Level Pro Institute. I am Pollyanna Chavez. Welcome, Shane. Dr. Shane Ram. Thank you for being here. And I want to start by mentioning that lately I keep hearing or reading, you know, there's people who are talking about nervous system regulation.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

And I know that you have recently written an article in LinkedIn that caught my attention because, you know, imagine not nervous system regulation, but nervous system resolution. Which I thought was very clever. So please tell me and tell, you know, our friends here who are listening, what is this difference for you about nervous system regulation versus nervous system resolution?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Sure. So regulation, the the EM with regulation, as you said, it's very, very popular out there, is to when you get triggered, is to be able to calm yourself and respond instead of react, basically, is what the end goal of that regulation is. And then apply to various scenarios in terms of leadership, maybe customer service, even parenting, okay, that you're able to regulate your system. But the the trouble in terms of how the need for regulation kicks in in the first place, there's a trigger. And what happens is that we have an automated response to that trigger that is wired in already. And what happens is that especially under pressure, that that part that could actually help us to regulate goes offline. So it's it's sort of counterintuitive and it it requires the person to be aware that I am triggered and to make a different choice. Okay. So that requires willpower, that requires discipline, that requires awareness, which a lot of people don't have. So I'm about, well, why are we triggered in the first place? Why why are we reacting to this? Why is it not water off a duck's back, whatever the trigger is. So that's where I am I'm you know focusing on where that event doesn't even bother you anymore. So the resolution as to why it is that that trigger fires off something in you, anyhow. Because, as you know, you might find uh two persons in the same situation and one responds very differently to the other. And that's because of something within themselves that has caused that. So that's where my work and my focus is, so that you know you become uh bulletproof, as uh Vishan Lakiani says, unfuckwitable, right? Where you know those things don't even bother you. And I use the example um, not in that article, but but sometime recently, where people talk about the environment. And yes, the triggers come from the environment. And uh and with respect to leadership, so the question was whether, you know, when you train people, are they going to execute back in the environment and how the environment impacts people? And I use the example of Elon Musk, right? If you take his character, and let's just say he wasn't the this founder and CEO of you know these really big global companies, let's just say he was a middle manager, okay? And he went on leadership training, emotional intelligence, the manager's a coach, you know, that sort of stuff, and he goes back into the organization. Do you think that he's gonna let the organization dictate what he does and doesn't do and what triggers him? No, he's not, because he has that what I call nervous system sovereignty. He has control over it. Okay, so that's the gold standard, not necessarily him, but that behavior is really what I um hope to train leaders to get to, where it's it's no longer about you know, remembering to regulate, remembering to breathe when you're stressed out in that moment. And that's the moment that the part that actually helps you to remember goes offline. So it's it's very counterintuitive, I think. But um, you know, I've learned to question things that are very popular. The right direction is to go against the popular thought, right? So the popular thought is regulation, so the real direction to go in is resolution.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And you just dropped another concept that I need to comment on, which is sovereignty.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

So it's it's uh a concept of really being in control of our neurology, right? And as you know, in NLP we talk about thinking on on purpose. So that's the the aim I think that everyone should get to. And as you know, I focus on on leadership and uh getting leaders to to have control. And sovereignty means I am in control of my emotions, I'm in control of what comes out of my mouth, I'm in control of my neurology. And that's that's really what that terminology uh is is all about. And uh in in my work, and it's it's an idea I've had since I um worked with a mentor and then read work by Robin Sharmer, for example, and he says, you know, see what everyone sees, but think what no one else thinks. And that has been that has served me so well in in my career. To um, and then another mentor said to me, he says, Shane, you want to be successful, just look at what everybody is doing and do the opposite. And do the opposite. Because when when you think about it, in in every aspect of life, if you look at the statistics, you know, how many people, you know, are not healthy, how many people have chronic disease and illness, how many people have mental health challenges, how many businesses fail, how many uh you know, leadership programs fail to change leaders' behaviors. It's it's really startling the statistics. So that that was a good guide, has been a really good guide for me for for many, many years when I heard it. So when I hear nervous system regulation as like, and that's popular, then as like that that can't be it. You know, that can't be the standard, that can't be the epitome of what you're looking for. So that's what I look for in terms of what is the highest standard in any particular thing. So if you look at the nervous system, what's the highest standard? It's it's not regulation. Okay, it's it's sovereignty. I I have control over it, not it having control over me.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

I love that because you are giving us this uh tall standard, right? And you need to think high in order to aim high. And the thing is, I don't know how many people can pull it off then. Right? How many people can help others achieve that sovereignty?

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Um, because you don't want them to be just words that you just coin, right? And so you back them up with the work you do, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Tell me more about it. Yeah. So that's a great question, you know, Pollyanna, in terms of who can help who achieve that, right? And and that's why it's it's incumbent, I think, on coaches to first have that. So so I say, you know, statement I have is can your coaching be sovereign if your nervous system isn't? And can your leadership be sovereign if your nervous system isn't? Okay, so so we find a lot of uh challenges. So I'll I'll talk about it in in in a minute, but you know, in in terms of even coaching certifications, we find that a lot of coaches are not able to help their clients because they first are not able to get into that state. Okay, and as you know, we talk about in NLP, we need to go there first. So that's what I'm I'm heavily focused on. So the the model that I that I use is a uh what I call a trauma-informed approach because at the end of the day, the thing that really dysregulates people or causes the dysregulation or the reaction to a particular trigger is a past experience that was negative, that the unconscious mind and the system is trying to protect us against. And we we have these these barriers that we we put up and these reactions really to protect ourselves. Doesn't always look like that in reality, but you know, all actions have a positive intent for the individual. So what I do is I I get to the root cause of it and and process it is the word that I use. I process it. So in in that model, if if there is a pattern, so to speak, we look at what drives the pattern. So I call it drivers and origins. What are the drivers of this reaction? Let's just say that someone has that as a leader, it's not leader-like a reaction. And uh so I strip it down. So before we have a behavior or non-behavior, because a non-behavior is also behavior if you think about it, you know, like not giving feedback, not being responsive.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

So we we we strip it down and figure out well, what's the story we tell ourselves before we engage in that pattern. So if we procrastinate, maybe we tell ourselves, um, I tried it before and it didn't work. I'm not sure it's gonna work this time. I knew someone who tried this and it didn't work. So we tell ourselves a story. And then we figure out what's the emotion behind that that story. It could be fear, it could be anxiety, you know, whatever that is. And then we we take that emotion and ask, well, what is the belief that I have about myself that creates this emotion, that creates this story, that creates this pattern? And then we go sometimes, if necessary, one level below, which is what is the original sensitizing event? What is the experience that caused me to believe this about myself and the world? So I get to the root cause and process it from there. So in in that regard, I have found then that creates that nervous system sovereignty where I have processed the thing that causes the trigger to trigger me. So it no longer triggers me because I have processed it at the root level.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

That is amazing, and I love how you go deep in there and be able to get it from the this origin to get it to wherever it has to go, and it has an impact in the person's life, their business, their relationship, the the way they are. And I I want you to talk more about uh the program that you have, but first I want you know, our the people who are listening to our audience like to meet you, who you are, because I know you are the sum of all the experiences that you are. I know you as a business growth advisor, I know you as a strategist, I know you are a speaker and you share the stage with very well-known figures. Uh, I know you as a, as you said, a coach, a practitioner, a leadership consultant. Um, but before all of that, you know, you also were the first person in your family to go to university, right? And so um, what did all this wire in you? You know, like tell us a little bit more about you so we get to know you.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, it it wired in that that's a very interesting concept of how it got wired in. And and I would say that what I've come to learn is that we are actually um wired for success. Right. That that's what I discovered because uh nothing in my early life suggested that I should be all of those things that you described me as, right? So so you know, I I don't remember this. Obviously, I was five years old, we were very, very poor. My mom told me that you know, uh I almost died of starvation. We were that poor. You know, no money to get food as the case, maybe, but even growing up uh 10 years old, when we were um studying for that transition from one school to the to the higher, um didn't even have electricity. I used to use a uh a kerosene lamp for studying and that sort of thing. So so that's why I said, and and you know, had some teachers who didn't necessarily believe in my potential and that sort of thing. So in between all of that, I I guess if I look back at it, I did have someone that I could you know rely on, that I felt uh safe being around, that somehow motivated and inspired me, and that was my my scout leader. Uh I didn't think about it then, but when I think back, that was probably you know the person who was the shining light in in all of this stuff. But in in all of that, too, I was very, very active. I was very, very interested in things. I did a lot of things, you know, whether it's sport or art as the case may be. So I was very active. But one of the things I I thought inside of me is that I always felt like I was here for a purpose and I was going to do great things. Whatever. I mean, that is relative, right? So that's why I said I and I tell people that you know, I am no more different, I'm no more special than anyone else. I believe that that spark, that wiring is in is in everyone. And and here's the thing is that that wiring gets covered up with these um experiences that that we have. And and from these experiences we start to form beliefs about ourselves, that you know, if we're good enough, if we are deserving, if we are worthy. And all of that stuff is really what we need to get rid of to expose the wiring, so to speak. Right? Uh that that's what I believe, that's what I experienced because I I can't, you know, put my my finger on anything, as I said, other than my um scout leader who was an inspiration to me. And then also, you know, I wasn't there. Uh, we were supposed to be walking to church on a Sunday morning as a scout group. Uh, I wasn't there that morning and he was um knocked down and um you know he died. So I didn't get a lot of time with him, but his um time with me was very, very impactful. So so that has been you know something at the back of my mind where okay, I I know life could be good, it could be great. Um be honest, put in the hard work, get things done, and uh um just just march on, you know, with with things. So so that's that's uh you know how I have have been, that have been my my mindset, my background. So everything that I I do, I go for 10 is is the concept, right? And that was uh that is a brand that I also have, uh a sort of personal development brand separated apart from my MetaBee leadership coaching system. And that is all about the the logo is is a is a pyramid, right? And it's about going for for for 10. And you know, there are various concepts. So there's survival, there's success, and then there's significance, right? There's always a higher level. So instead of a lot of people are pursuing success, and I was like, you know, we need to pursue significance, and the success will come. And then there is uh instinct, intellect, and now you know AI has made intellect almost defunct, but there's a higher superpower called intuition, right? So instinct, intellect, intuition. And I wrote about it in the last chapter of my book, Future Ready Leadership. So we have these abilities. So my thing is about how do I always aim for the top, so to speak. You know, so that's that's me in a nutshell, very humble beginnings, lots of struggles, right, as as well. And that has led me to many great findings. Okay, so you know, mental health challenges have been, you know, had suicidal thoughts in in my life. But every time that I've gone through that, in the search of a solution, I have come upon great technologies that I use to help myself and then help other people. So that's uh, I mean, don't want to sound too woo, but that's what a purposeful life is is all about. And I tell people, while I have a process to help people to discover their purpose, I tell people it's you know, go through your struggles, your crap, your shit, find a solution to it and help other people who are going through that that that challenge. If you don't know what your purpose is, that that's a short definition of what it is. So I I uh live on on that principle. I believe that I know what that purpose is, and I believe that God knows that I know what that purpose is. So my driver is that when I uh leave this earth and I go up and he said, you know, did you do what I sent you to do? I should be able to answer resounding yes. So that's my um mission, so so to speak, in my in my work, my hidden mission. Uh thanks for asking about that. You know, a lot of people don't ask that question. I mean, not that it needs to get out there, but that's really my my driver of um why do everything that I do.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I mean, most people are happy to stay at five.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

You wouldn't even settle for a seven. You're like, I'm going for ten.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yeah, exactly. And that's that was the original tagline. Don't settle for seven, go for ten.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah. Yeah, because why settle, right? When you are able to aim for ten. And that that is beautiful. And uh something that you said about purpose, you know, the simplicity. How would you describe finding your purpose? I was just recently having a conversation with someone who was struggling to find their purpose. So I'm gonna come and say, come watch this chapter. Like Shane can tell you in two minutes.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Well, what shit have you gone through? That's that's a question. That that's that's where the purpose lies.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah, that's and and when and in your program, I know that you go deeper into this, and and you also have uh a deeper way of approaching all these things. Um, but thinking about leadership coaching, right? With this is uh what a multi-billion million dollar business industry, you know, and and you're just saying that something that is probably gonna a little bit rock, you know, this interesting because you're saying that most of it is failing, right? And so why should anyone believe that what you're doing is different?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Great question. So it's it's um I've been involved in human resources and you know, people development for for close to 30 years now. So the the challenge is that it it really isn't new, it's it's known as the the knowing do-in gap, right? So people know and the the behaviors are not in alignment with with what they they know. So one of the challenges is that you know the people who buy the leadership coaching and buy the leadership training, they buy what the market produces. So that's the first thing. I don't really blame those uh people and HR and LD in the organization. I I take it from an industry perspective. So the industry has given training, but they haven't given the tools to do transformation. Right? So that's one of the things. It has given training, but they haven't given the tools to do transformation. So one of the concepts is that um it's it's been heavily focused on providing knowledge. And one of the things that you know, doing neurolinguistic programming and understanding the brain a lot more is that, for example, if you were to use this analogy, that this is the prefrontal cortex or what is known as system two. And now the coaches and the trainers they they they have great information, great frameworks, great tools, uh, great insight. That is processed with this part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex. So everyone sit and say, Yeah, I get it. That was useful. That's a great idea. I'm gonna do that when I go back to the office, right? But what happens is that most of us are in an automatic mode, so to speak. Everything that we do, most of what we do is is automated. We don't think about, you know, we don't get up in the morning and decide, hmm, which hand should I brush my teeth with today? All right. It's automatic. When our eyes see the red light, our foot automatically moves to the brake, you know, if you're a good driver, that sort of thing. So all of it is automated, which is stored in a different part of the brain, which is which is over here, or what we call system two. So most training gets done over here, but most behavior are dictated by what is in system one. And most training and coaching do not get at that level. Okay, so so that's that's one of the first ideas in terms of where MetaB is uh focused on the part of their the brain and the system that drives behavior. Because at the end of the day, uh leadership, judged by the followers or the people in the organization, is based on people's behaviors. Some people look at results, but if your results are great and your behaviors as a person isn't, you're not classified as a good leader or you don't have leader-like behaviors. So one of the things that I do, I go four levels in it. So the first level, which most programs have, is the knowledge level. All programs have that. Some go to the next level, which is behaviors, skills, habits, as the case may be. So what I've found over the years, Pollyanna, is that the next level is critical, which is identity and beliefs and values. And what that means is that you could send someone on a training about, let's say, delegation and the benefits of delegating and how to delegate and not to micromanage and how to empower people. And again, they sit in the classroom and their prefrontal cortex goes, Yes, I get it. I see the benefit of it. But if their identity, how they see themselves. So let's say they see themselves at their core, for whatever reason that they formed that identity many years before they walked into the organization. Let's say that identity based on what they saw around them was one of command and control. So there are two different things there's command and control, and then there's empowerment and delegation. But if they see themselves at their core identity as one of command and control, they're not going to execute on the things that they would have learned. So people do not act differently from their identity. And there's very few training and coaching certifications that train coaches and trainers how to do identity level work, how to do values levels work, how to do belief levels work. At a level that is actually able to rewire the belief rather than uh the most I've seen people go is um a reframe. Okay. And sometimes that works, but that doesn't work for every identity level belief and value. So that's another level that I go to in my work, and then I go to a further level, which is what we were speaking about before, which is that nervous system sovereignty, which is now I know the information, I know what to do, I get it, I could change my identity, but there's still something inside of me. So nervous system really is a fancy word to, I'm gonna give you another fancy word, but um it's it's a physiological block, right? Which means that we know what to say. And I think every human being would have experienced this in their life where you know what to say in a particular situation because you've been trained, you understand it, but you sort of freeze. So that's what it is. It's it's it's a freeze where you know, because of maybe the person's status, maybe because you are you have an avoidant um conflict personality type where um you know you think you have a belief that conflict is is bad. You know, some people I I used to have that belief. Okay, so so we work at that that level. If your nervous system doesn't allow you, and it's it's sort of stuck in your throat, and and I think everybody would have experienced that based on who it is. So that's the four levels that I work on, and uh that's what makes it um different in in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So it is it's very cool that you're talking about identity level work. Um because like things that I've observed, for example, yeah, working in in organizations where you see people, especially where I am, you see um scientists, right, who are really good scientists. And then, of course, you know, they're so good that they put them in management leadership positions, right? And and they know how to do the science, they know how to lead these projects, right? Uh this this is something that actually happened to me. And then suddenly you find yourself leading a team of human beings. Yeah, you're no longer leading projects, right? And so um I had the advantage of knowing neurolinguistic, knowing how the mind works and stuff, but I always wondered what is it that other people do when they don't have this, right? And and we do have so many trainings, supervisory trainings, uh, you know, for all UNHR, you know, all the trainings that a corporation can provide because they want to make their leaders the best leaders they can make them. And how cool would it be, right, if we can take this knowledge that this subject matter expertise and make them good leaders, right? And and so I get where they're coming from. And and then I I see you, you know, that you've seen this. This is something not, this is not the first time you do, right? So when you find someone like, let's say someone like me, right? Like, and um, what do you do? What do you do then for someone like me, for example? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

So as as you said, it's it's it's not new. If if you look at every RFP from an organization, that's probably the premise, right? So that you have good uh someone or some some people uh with really good technical expertise and uh they want to develop other skills. So there are two ways to look at this, Pollyanna, is that one, we we get to that identity level work. And there are two outcomes to this. And one is that a lot of people don't recognize that they do have a lot of the qualities that are required for good leadership, they've just never really practiced it, right? Because when you think about it, have you ever actively listened? Of course they have, right? Um, you you might learn some some techniques. Have you one of the skills, however, is switching from telling to asking. Right? That that's one of the skills. But have you ever asked a question? Of course they have, right? It's they're just doing more telling than asking. Yeah? And and that it's really about the the ratio, but I I believe that most what is required for good leadership, most people do it already. It's just in a way smaller proportion than it is the non-leader-like behavior. So that is easy to work, as you know, the process of finding where you have certainty and then you know, snapping that in. And then we we work on on values. So, what is important to them. And at the end of the day, you will find that um, again, a lot of people have the values that they need for good leadership. They just don't practice it. So, not because you value something means that you do it. Okay. So, so one of the things would be, you know, getting people to take the action in alignment with that. So I ask people, you know, we do a value solicitation, and then we ask them, well, are you that? If they said no, then we figure out what actions can can you take in order to do that. And the second path is when they they they don't have that particular quality or value, and then we decide, well, what is that gonna look like? And you get them to do it, and then we inform, again, if you take that that same structure, well, what is the story you're gonna have to tell yourself? What are you gonna have to believe? What state you need to be in to be able to take that action. So we work at those levels and then get them off back into the organization, taking action. And that's why you know coaching is a lot more valuable when done right than a one-off training program, because with the one-off training programs, they they get the information and they go back, and there's very little accountability for taking action. Okay, the work gets in the way, their manager doesn't know anything about the program. They just have expectations of what this person should do. Uh, they they don't check in on you know what new behaviors are you expected to do. And and that is a function of how training is is designed, because you know, managers too need to be able to get involved. And this is one of the things that I do is that the person coming to the training, their their superiors, if you want to put it that way, have to get in and say to us, what do I want to get out of this? What is the new behaviors that I want to see out of this program? So they have to get in involved, but typically they're not involved. So the learner goes back into the organization, the trainer, the coach goes his or her way, and there's no accountability for behavior change, and it just wanes and goes to nothing, to be to be quite honest. That's where the accountability comes in. That that's the importance and criticality of a coach. And you you check in and then you know you figure out if they were able to do it, if they weren't able to do it, then it's very easy to analyze why they weren't able to do it. Was it a belief, a story? Was it the right state? You know, very, very easy. What's the story that you told your your yourself? So, to give you a quick example to make this real, I was uh coaching someone, a manager who uh had challenges with time management and you know sticking with with things. So, what we do every Sunday, she had to send me her schedule for the week and uh you know what are high priority items, what are the things that she must do to be able to move the needle on her targets this this week. We block it off in into the calendar and then you know let it uh work, of course, doing the the underlying work, and then we next call we check in and say, well, how how did it go? And then I remember it was like Monday morning, her first hard cutoff was 9 a.m. Really important tasks uh she had to do. But um when we had our next call, she said, said, How did it go? She said, Well, I I missed my first timeline and everything you know got um uh affected from from that, the domino effect. And I said, Well, what happened? Tell tell me the scenario. And she said, Well, we have a hybrid work environment, so I didn't see this particular um person for a little while. So we were catching up and it was going good. And I said, Did you know? Yeah, she said my watch vibrated. I know it was you know five to nine that I need to get to this task. And I said, What happened? She said, Um, I knew that I had this hard cutoff, but I didn't want to be rude, is what she said to me. Yeah. So which so we'll dissect that, right? So one of the things that she she she didn't have, so that nervous system sovereignty that we talk about, I know I have a hard cutoff. And if if I had that, then I think the vocabulary would would come. But we had to to train that too. And and and I said, How does this sound? So Pollyanna, it was great catching up with you. Um, we we need to finish this conversation, but I have a really critical task that I need to start at nine. I have a hard cutoff. So um let's sync our calendars after I get this done and see how we could finish the conversation. And I said, Does that sound rude? And she said, no. Right? So so that's how we do it. We we'll you know figure out what levels is it, is it a knowledge level? So she didn't have the what I call conversational intelligence, know what to say. But deep down inside, she felt something that I didn't want to cut this person off. I I didn't want to be rude, which is again saying something and being concerned about what the other people thought about me based on my action. And that is a clear sign of not having that sovereignty over their nervous system. So that's a practical. I wanted to give a real practical example of how you know the work is done. So that's the ability. Um, and then you dissect if they didn't go uh according to it. So as I said, just to bring the answer in in a nutshell to that question, how do you move someone who's more technically inclined to be more um of a leader-like person? I would say that people have a lot of the traits is just to be able to exaggerate it, expand it. And then if if they don't, then figure out what those are and just begin to do it, but set up the system. What is the knowledge I need to be able to do it? What is the identity that I need to have? What is the beliefs that I need to have in order to execute on those things and work at the the nervous system so that they have the you know control over it to be able to execute on what needs to be said and done.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

You truly, when you look at people, you truly believe I can see this, that everyone's wired for success.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Like there's that deep, deep, deep, deep, deep wire for success identity that gets like covered, and then suddenly we have this other identity that is the one that we're surviving in this world, right? And I am so amazed because with your program, you're actually doing that, you're digging, and you're like, Yes, you believe you think this is your identity, but it's not. Yeah, you know, when you said that, like this lady or this person was saying, um, I don't want to be rude. Yeah, right. I hear that so much of my clients. I don't want to be mean and and I don't want to be rude, and then they silence themselves or they allow other people to to step on them, no boundaries or or something, right? And or other things that happen after that that are not good for them. And that definitely is seated coming from who knows where in their past or life experiences or something. But I just love that that you see everybody that they're really truly wired for success and and you're going there. You're an archaeologist, you're just digging there and trying to find so and Shane, that this must be a pleasure. And this is your hour. I really want you to tell people about your program, MetaB, also about Go410, or whatever programs that you're having now, because uh, where can people find you? How uh how are they if they want to learn from you? Because you are providing this something very deep type of work that actually is going to execute change that is visible. So, how can they learn from you, work from you? And tell us more about Meta B. Meta B.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Certainly. So um Meta B came out of that desire of you know, finding a solution of how do we actually get people to change their behaviors, right? So the B and Meta B is behaviors, and um, the meta came from metamorphosis of how to make change, so to speak. So I've used that analogy throughout my my coaching life, and um, which means that it's it's sort of like you know, from the the caterpillar to the butterfly, it's difficult at first, it's messy in the middle because the identity is all messed up. Am I a butterfly? Am I a caterpillar? And then you could fly when you become the butterfly. Okay, so that's that's the idea behind the name of MetaBee, bless you. And uh so I have I developed this system about five years ago. And in implementing it, I actually found that it it really worked. The behavior change was very visible. I got great feedback from my clients, and then I thought, well, why don't I teach other coaches in order to really expand and get the behavior change globally? Because we we really do need it. So MetaB, um, how it started off, it's is now a system rather than a framework or process. And a system is something that has multiple parts that need to work together for it to function properly. So, yes, there are frameworks, yes, there are um processes. Um, there's also language, precision language, precision listening in it. Uh certain skills that you need to learn in order to uh really bring that transformation in the behavior. So it started off as five steps. It's still there, but it's expanded. And this is where you know the NLP came in to really give it the edge, right? And it gives Natabi the the edge now, which is so the first step is what I call insights and ownership. And that's where we get the the actual behaviors that the person is doing now. Now, coaching has two arms to it. So sometimes people see it as remedial, fixing something that is not um, you know, going right, and then it's also getting people to the next level. But at the at the end of the day, it's it's a change, right? So, how do we create change at the end of the day? So we need to know what it is like now and uh where we want to get to. So it's like a GPS. You need to plug in these two um points in order to for it to work and get to your destination. So that first step is like where are we now? So we call it Insights, where we get into uh outside um people that you work with, what are they observing in terms of your behaviors? And uh we developed a tool to do this as well effectively, because what I saw out there was a lot of the tools in terms of 360 feedback still tended to be very, very subjective. And what I did was I built an objective uh system where we we call it the video camera effect. Like, what did you see? So, what most people in those surveys would say, well, you know, this person is aggressive or this person is avoidant. And uh, you didn't see that, right? That's your judgment. And what happens is that if you give people judgment, they're less likely to accept the judgment. But if you said you raised your voice at John when you were having that conversation, you were pointing fingers at John, you were in John's face, you were over the table, then that's undeniable. Okay, but if you say you're aggressive, then you say, Well, I'm not, I was passionate as the case may be. And the conversation goes in a completely different direction. So I call this the observed behavior 360. What did the video camera say? Right, and what you actually saw and did. And what we found is that when you communicate in that way, the client, the coache, takes ownership. It's like, okay, I can't deny that one because that's what the video camera showed that I did and said. Okay, so that's step one. And uh before I complete step one, how did you know NLP help me here? Is that in that insights we have certain beliefs that are hidden. And I use something called the Johari window, which is very, very simple but very powerful in helping self-awareness. So this is where most um coaching starts, most coaching stops at self-awareness, and the self-awareness is not even complete because there's something called the open, which they know about themselves and other people know. Then there is the uh facade, which is what the client knows about themselves, but they don't want the world to know. Those are fine. But then we have the blind spots that other people see that they don't see, which is very useful to find those. But there's a part that no one talks about, which is the unknowns. And it's crazy to think about it that there's 25% of a client that nobody even thinks that is there, and not even concerned that is there, but that uh unknown part really what I have found to be the drivers of their main behaviors. And the unknowns are what is in the unconscious, okay, and Carl Jung said. That unless, critical word, unless you make the unconscious conscious, you will go through life and call it fate. Right. And then, you know, like coaches try and people try their best. And it's like, maybe that's not what I was meant to do. And that's not really it, is that they have not been able to access the unconscious mind. And this is where, you know, NLP comes in. So able to access and able to rewire what is there. So that's insights. And then the next step is what I call drivers and origins, and I spoke about it, which is where you get to what are the beliefs and the identity level that is driving the behaviors that we are seeing right now. And then step three is rewire and remap, which is where now we at a neurological level create new wiring in people's brains so that they get to the new behaviors that we want from them and install it at a level where it becomes as automatic as every other behavior that they have, right? So as you know, most of our behaviors are automatic. And yes, we have some good ones and some not so good ones, some leader-like ones and some not leader-like ones. So and and all of it is automatic. So the trick really is getting the new behaviors installed at a level that it becomes automatic. And that's one of the differences with MetaB Polyanner, is that most uh coaching and training, we we tell people what they should do, um, you know, pause, breathe, think, respond instead of react. And again, we sit in the classroom and say, that sounds like a good idea, but but their system is not wired, right? Um, and that that is so critical. So that rewiring is critical and a game changer in the leadership development industry. And then you have habits, is is step number four. What are the routines and habits you need to do to install that behavior so it becomes automatic? And step five is is about celebration when you have the wins so that it uh produces the good brain juice and it tells the brain, okay, this was good. This person is happy about this, do more of it. So that's the five steps in in MetaB. And uh so uh now I've turned it into a certification program where we train coaches to be able to execute the MetaB system. But that is the core framework of it. But um, what is again unique in in the marketplace with MetaB leadership system, coaching certification, is that we first work on the coach. Most coaching programs they teach the coaches the frameworks and they don't really prepare the coach to be able to execute the frameworks. And that's why it's it's found, and this this is a true statistic, even with the International Coach Federation. Okay, they hired PWC to do a survey. They surveyed 10,000 ICF coaches, and they found that only 5% of them actually execute on frameworks that could bring a change in their clients. 5%. So, how, you know, so what's the gap? The gap I have found is that they don't work on the coaches. Make sure that they have the right identity, that they have the right beliefs, that they have the control over their nervous system before I teach you the tools and the frameworks. Because again, same thing with like like leaders. If you you have the knowledge alone, but you don't have everything else, it's going to fail. And that's really what has been been happening. And um so from my main page, so thank God my name is very short. So shaneram.com. Um it's it's where you you can go. And then from there you'll find all of the social media links and more information on Metabi. So that'll be the main point. But of course, um, find me on on LinkedIn, just search the name, and um very easy to remember and very easy to find.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

Yeah, um, we'll put it in the notes for the show so people can easily find you. Uh what you just said, it's just so fascinating, right? And and it's unique. And I also want to clarify something, right? Because you are not saying that people need to get all their shit together because we're humans. We're just it's works in progress, right? But you just want to have a level of sovereignty where you can actually help someone else, yeah, right. And so um, that reminds me always of the you know, the analogy when you fly in an airplane and and they ask you, you know, put the mask on you first before you can help others, you know, either a child or an older person if you're traveling with them. Uh right. And and there's all this thing about uh focusing on oneself, on the journey of self, so that you can actually help others. Um I think we all are works in progress. Like we it's not about perfection, but I love that the word sovereignty doesn't require perfection. No, and tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yeah, well, um, and and that's a great point. And it's it's about uh again, you know, what how I phrase Meta B is that you know, we work on the coach, it's the exact work we need to do on the leader because they're they're human the same way, function in the same way, design the same way. Okay, so we need to be able to know what we are able to do and what we are not able to do to be there for our clients. And and in NLP, you know, we say, you know, the coach has to go there first. Okay, so we need to know and really understand our our clients. And and the challenge with the coaching industry, Pollyanna, is that you know, once people have the money and the program is out there, you swipe your card, you go through and you say, yes, you understand, you pass the test and you get certified as as a coach. Okay, that's that's the reality of the industry. And uh, you know, I I hope to make a change, so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm not just sitting down and hoping that it changes. I am doing something about it. I've created a program that could actually create change. So you're right, it's it's not about uh perfection. And I think that one of the more humble things that someone could do that I have seen in my life is really acknowledge what you you're not good at. I I define humbleness as you know, you know, acknowledging that there's something that I don't know and something that I can't do. And you go ahead and learn. And I think that if we uh are transparent with our clients, we get a lot more respect. And uh, you know, some people might say, well, how can you help me if you you're not able to help yourself? And uh um and and that's a real concern, and I think as well, the coach also needs to be able to have a coach, right? And that that's something that I I tell people in selecting a coach, one of the questions to ask the coach is who's your coach? Because if you believe in coaching, if you understand that you have blind spots, if you have unknowns, then knowing that you um will not get to perfection, that we are work in progress, and that's why God is keeping us alive, that we have more growth to do, then you would have a coach. You would go and say, you know, I need a session. And I know there's coach supervision, but it's not at the level, they're not equipped to go at the level of understanding beliefs and ideas. So yeah, we are working in progress, and that's why one of the identities that I tell people to have, one of the beliefs to have, is um to adopt, and it works in almost every situation, is I am the learner. I am the learner. So I fail. Okay. I'm not so you change the mindset. You know, I'm not bad, I'm not horrible, I'm not worthy. I am a learner. So I learn. So so I think it's a great identity to have. Um I'm a learner. So that's one of the things I I do with my clients. I install that I identity so that it's no longer, well, I'm um I'm crappy and that's why it failed. I'm not good enough. No, I'm a learner. Okay, so there's something I didn't know, something I don't know how to do, so I could go learn in order to have success.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. I love it. And thank you again, Shane, for being here and sharing your experience and your expertise. And definitely, guys, check him out. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:02

You're welcome. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Thank you. Thank you for listening to an NLP podcast, brought to you by NextLevel Pro Institute. See you on the next one.