SPEAKER_00 0:00

Many people have never experienced being with somebody who is just there, not judging them, holding a space of unconditional love, if you want to call it that, but really allowing them to be who they are.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

You are listening to an NLP podcast brought to you by Next Level Pro Institute. I am Pollyanna Chavez. Okay, Hilary. I am so happy that you're here with me in this podcast. And thanks. I want I want to ask you something because you are a naturopathic physician. You can order the same labs and you can prescribe the same medicine as any physician, and you chose or you're choosing to work at the level of belief and energy.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

So uh tell me why well I think because it's the only thing that makes sense to me because I learned very early on. I went to naturopathic medical school first and foremost because I heard a voice that told me to do that, but and without even really knowing what it was. But then I found out that the way that naturopathic physicians are trained is to have the basic sciences, the ability to diagnose and use the same lab processes, use the same medications as long as they have a natural base. But then naturopathic physicians look at many different lifestyle aspects. They do have a mind-body-spirit uh way of filtering things. Each naturopathic physician specializes in different ways. So if you go to one, the next one that you go to won't be the same, depending on what they specialize in. And to me, when I began my practice, I had a BA in psychology already, and I had been involved in a group that was doing emotional spiritual work at the time. My first patients when I opened my practice showed me that it just wasn't going to work to only do naturopathic medicine. I thought at the time that if allopathic, which is what we call Western medicine, if that didn't work, then the naturopathic procedures would work because it's based on an unnatural way of being and living in the world. But I found very early that it didn't work. In fact, my first, one of my first clients came to me and she had had symptoms for the last 10 years. She told me, you know, you're my last hope. I I don't know what else to do after seeing you. And I told her that we could try naturopathic protocols and see if they worked. But if they didn't, we would have to start looking into the underlying emotional, spiritual, energetic issues. And indeed it turned out to be true. So once we started to move in that direction, we got a complete healing that hadn't been able to occur before that. So in myself and my own healing journey, and in all of the journeys that I've gone on with other people, clients, friends, family, in terms of what you would call healing, uh, an adventure in terms of intimacy with yourself, essentially, I have discovered that if you only address the physical, then that's you may get a healing on that level. But if something is going on long-term and chronically, there's probably other levels involved that have to be addressed.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Um we were just before this talking about the hero's journey. And when I'm thinking about you, you are one of my heroes. But I know that you have an origin story. And that origin story was also inspired by another hero in your life. And I would love it if you could share with um our audience, you know, because you are Dr. Hilary Stewart. I want to make sure that I mentioned your name so that everyone knows exactly who you are. And you know that I work also in public health. I do. And it's so interesting, full circle, that this last week I've been looking at dashboards from that are fed by the National Violent Death Registry System, which actually is the one that catalogues suicides among other violent deaths. So when we were discussing and I learned about your origin story, I thought, of course, I want you to share with us who was this first hero in your life.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah. Well, it's a story that I'm very happy to share, and also is so dear to my heart because my my father was really what I consider to be my very first spiritual teacher. He was someone who always I could talk to about anything. And I used to say to my friends, you know, when I talk to my dad, he feels like a sponge because it's just like he absorbs whatever it is that you're saying. And you just feel better after talking to him, even if he doesn't say a word. As I continued on my own journey of learning how to be a what I call the presence of the practitioner, I realized that my father was holding presents and that he was able to, especially at the time period, because it was the late 1940s for him. I was born in 53, so it was the early 50s. Nobody knew about presence at that time. And in fact, there was a very specific way of looking at mental illness, at looking at uh people in general. There was a very specific prejudices. My dad was uh he after he got out of the World War II, he came to Los Angeles and got his PhD in psychology. And he, as part of his thesis, began to work with another person who became interested in suicide. Suicide at the time was swept under the rug. No one talked about it. It was a huge shame. And people were considered to be mentally ill or insane if they would attempt such an act. But he described going to the coroner's office with his fellow psychologist, and they had one room that was filled with charts of people who had ended their lives by suicide. He even said that they left the notes, you know, with blood on them, reading, that they read, and realized that this was not mental illness, that this was this was people who were in significant mental, emotional anguish and spiritual as well, but they didn't talk about that at all either. My dad's first book was called Taboo Topics, and then his next one was called The Cry for Help. So he spearheaded the field of suicidology with research that he did, and he discovered that if you could interrupt, pattern interrupt, right? If you could interrupt someone who was in the throes of the desire or the being compelled to end their own life by their own hand, that you would get a significant change and the ability to move forward. So he began the first 24-hour crisis lines. And those, in fact, were in my home when I was an infant. So from there, the the thing about my dad was that he was able to think outside of the box. So he was not, because he was so non-judgmental, he was not bound to conform to the way that people thought at the time. And every time he would do something, he would implement something that would be of help, he would always then take a look at how it worked and say, what next? So he discovered that, okay, we have these 24-hour crisis lines. Now we need a place, we need to do something with people once they have been interrupted. So he formed the very first Suicide Prevention Center, which my entire family worked in. I think I was telling you that my aunt ran the office, but we all I stuffed envelopes for uh fundraising when I was a kid. We all worked there. And he developed groups for people to come to to get group therapy. He started training therapists and social workers. So it became a huge hub of very prominent psychologists and social workers in the country to get training. And it spread. So when I was 10 and 11, we went to Europe. We lived in Vienna for a year, and he formed the International Association of Suicide Prevention there with a Viennese colleague, and that spread it throughout the world. So I really did live with someone who was what I consider to be an amazing spiritual teacher. He had such patience and um uh and really taught me so much. And my entire family was medical and some either psychological. We had doctors and we had social workers, and uh my brother was the optometrist, my daughter's a doctor, so it runs in the family. And I kind of swerved off into the Netherlands when I became a naturopathic physician, but my father was all for it, even my mother was, and uh, and I was telling you that I, on the other end, I got a lot of internal work that I was had to work on myself because my mother was um a very difficult personality, we will say.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

I mean, uh that's part of the story, right? I mean, we are the sum of all of our experiences, like the good, the bad, they all make who we are, right? And so it's it's so beautiful that you have this, and and you can you share the name of your dad?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

My dad was uh called Dr. Norman Farberow, F like and Frank, A-R, B-E-R-O-W. And I was Dr. Farborough before I became Dr. Stewart. So if you Google him, you'll you'll see. And what was fascinating to me, especially about him, was that when he died, he fell. He was 97, and he fell and uh hit his eye on the corner of a table and got a blame a brain bleed. The day that he fell was the very beginning of International Suicide Prevention Week, which he founded, and then he uh was in a coma for four days and he died on International Suicide Prevention Day, which he founded. So you really have to believe in the soul and soul's work if you take a look at that. At least to me.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

No, and uh I mean it is part of the story. It's it is part of not only your story, but the story of this country, the story even of public health. So I really wanted you to share that here, and we could have some time to honor that, right? Because it has what he did, he it made an impact.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

And he was the most humble uh my mother forced him to put all of his accolades on the wall, but he would train people to run group therapies at the Suicide Prevention Center, or they actually they flew him all over the country after a while for disaster prevention. Mount St. Helens blew up and he was there to train the therapist. But people would describe that he would be in the group training someone and introduce himself as Norm, Norman, or hi, I'm Norm. You would never know that he he he was so humble and so human that it was just such an amazing, he was an amazing being.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Uh yeah, and you can I can feel it. You can you keep him close to you, and and I know that um you mentioned how your life took you to different places, like away from oh, still in the medical realm, you know, because you know I can see that legacy, right? Like you wanted to help people and go in there, but your path went a little different because you did trainings that go beyond medical school, right? And so, and among them I know NLP, that's how we met. Uh, but uh but I want to hear more about your story because you use all the skills that you've acquired whenever you're working with your clients, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

I do, indeed. Yes. Many, many, many years. I tried to retire. It just didn't work. We'll let you. Yes. So I got accepted. I I went to uh UC, uh University of California in psychology. I got my BA there, and that was in uh 1970. I think I graduated in 74 from UC Santa Cruz, which was the same time period that Dr. Bandler was there, I like to say, but I didn't know him. But it was a wild time because there was so much exploding in the way of people becoming cognizant of the mind-body and spirit relationship and starting to do a lot more research on it. We didn't really know much before then. And, you know, I don't know. I for most people I'm at an age where you can't imagine growing up and all of a sudden being introduced to a television when you're a child. So uh I we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have computers, we had encyclopedias that you had to look up things. So I got my B in psychology there, and I got accepted to go get a PhD at the University of Denver, and I took a trip over there, and there was something inside of me that said, You can't do this. This is you, you will not be able to last through the program in this place. So, and at the time I was living in the Santa Cruz Mountains at the top of a mile-high mountain in the middle of the Redwoods and Madrones. And I think I was telling you the story about I one night had a desire to read something, and I sat in front of my bookcase, and a book fell out that I had read prior, which had had no effect on me, but it fell into my lap, so I decided I'd read it again, and it was the autobiography of a yogi by Paramahatsa Yogananda. So I started to read that and just devoured it. I was so touched by it. I joined the self-realization fellowship and I started to meditate. And that's when I was so quiet up there in my little tree house, and I started to hear the voice of my guidance uh very clearly, and started to understand the ability to manifest because the ways that I was dreaming of things began to materialize in my life. I had some visions when I was sitting in front of the fire of night of past lives and things that at that time period were pretty magical living up in the mountains there. And one day I was leafing through a magazine called East West Journal, and there was a this ad about this big for the National College of Naturopathic Medicine. I have no idea what naturopathic medicine was. I had never heard of it, and I heard this voice that just said, that is what you're going to do next. It was so strong and powerful that I called the school the next day, found out that I would have to go back to school to get the science prerequisites. So I enrolled immediately and spent another year and a half getting a BS equivalent in science, and then went to the naturopathic college here in Portland, Oregon. And that was 1983. So that began my naturopathic um education, which made my parents so happy because up until that point, all they knew was that I had said I wasn't going to go to a PhD program that I'd been accepted to. My mother didn't talk to me for six months, which was a mixed blessing. But anyway, they were very happy that I was back in school. And even though it was such an alternate type of a profession, but they backed me on it. And in my third year of naturopathic medical school, I began working with a teacher doing emotional spiritual work and very, very deep work with some of the technology of the time, which we have since found out is wrong, a wrong way to work with the brain. So I had to redo a lot of that. But that really began my foray into working with the mental, emotional, and then the spiritual levels, because I started to be introduced to spiritual teachers who were awakened and study with them pretty extensively as well.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

So yeah, so that's interesting because you were exposed to all these things, you know, even and I and you know, every method that you encounter, for example, right? Like naturopathy or, you know, the all the other spiritual uh trainings that you did, like I mean, it's so interesting that you mentioned that suddenly now you know that there's some things that were not correct and that you had to to undo or redo or you know, learn new things, right? And so uh it, you know, it's interesting because many times people say, yeah, learn this thing, this is the way, right? I mean, even medicine is like that, right? Like this is how we do things, right? Uh, you know, in naturopaths probably they say, oh no, it has to be this way, you know, and then other people, oh, this other way, right? And so why would anyone need to believe that there's one single right technique, right? And what amazes me about you is how you've taken all these trainings, right? So, and you've incorporated them there. And I would love it if you could talk a little bit about your program, the illuminated being, because I think that that's something that it's super new, even though you've been doing it for many years, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

But that doesn't seem weird to me. Alternative.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Right. Integrative. Integrative, and yeah. So I I think I was explaining to you how during this time period it was an explosion. We really didn't know what we were doing, but there were there were all different types of therapies emerging. And each one would be Touted as the only thing that you needed to do, and that would you would heal whatever that meant, essentially. And then you had sort of the spiritual teachers versus the psychological teachers versus the people who were doing physical work. And then if you stick the clairvoyance in there doing energy work, and all of this information was exploding at the same time. So I started to realize that none of them were wrong, and none of them were correct in saying it was the only thing to do, that they all had their time and their place. I must say that I was led by my guidance, my connection to my spiritual self. And at the same time, I'm I'm somewhat geeky, nerdy, because I love to research and go down the rabbit holes. And I realized that I had to figure out a way to incorporate or organize everything that I was learning. So the spiritual teachers would say, you know, you're not your body, you're not your mind. You just have to disidentify with it all. And then the psychological people were saying you have to go back into your childhood and you have to process everything. And, you know, and the energetics would say you've got to work on the chakras and work on your or and you can do it all energetically. And what became clear to me is that there's a time and a place that each one of those can be useful and helpful. And you, as the operator of what I call this mind-body machine, can access the ability to learn about the different levels, both theoretically, so what each level contains, and then also from an intimate perspective of self-exploration. So the levels are source consciousness, what I call source consciousness, which is unconditional love and non-duality, and then the spiritual level, which is an individualized extension of source consciousness, and then into the human aspect of being, which is the mental level, the emotional level, the energy level, and the physical level. And all of these levels have their own anatomy and physiology, so to speak, their structure and content. And then each one affects the other, so that if you do something down on the physical, it affects all of the levels. So when I'm working with people, I feel like you have to play detective and to figure out, first of all, everyone comes in because they want to manifest something different. Usually for me, it's going to be because they have an illness of some sort, but it may be that they come to me because they want to manifest a relationship or they want to make more money or something of that nature. Or they're going into surgery, something, something like that. And then there's what in NLP you call the desired state or the goal state. And you have to figure out if you want to get from where you are right now, how do you get to here? And that's where you can start to say, well, what level do you need to address in order to make that happen? And maybe there's multi-levels. So you maybe start off here in the mental level, working with beliefs and values and identity. But maybe then you have to go down into the energetic level and start to work with that. So it becomes a useful tool for navigating what I call the map of the of being human. And it is something that is general enough in the levels that whatever you've already learned, you can put into a level as an organizational tool as well. And I know that you are very well trained and genius at doing NLP at this point, such a great teacher. So I know that what you know will fit into this map already. And in fact, some of what I learned in NLP myself is now incorporated into the different levels that you can go to to utilize that. And hypnotherapy, and um, but then there are other incredible things that you can do as well on the spiritual level, or on the level of guidance, or on the level of even the physical, uh, which has many tools. So it's a really great toolbox that you can carry and keep filling and uh begin to utilize in a precise way to be efficient in terms of trying to move from the problem to the desired state or to what you want to manifest without having to guess so much.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

And I mean, it is an amazing framework. I and I know that you've been applying it for many years, right? I mean, you and even though you started applying it, I think early on in your career, uh, you've been adapting it. Like you're saying now, like once you got the information from NLP, you went ahead and add it there and enrich it as it's been progressing through. And uh, and that talks about how to me, like how amazing you are at getting all this information, processing it, organizing it, and have this framework that you can use. And so maybe you can give us a little bit of an example of some of the if it's okay to share about uh some clients and how how you're using this and and how is that different from let's say just an exclusively NLP session or maybe just going to the doctor, you know, like because you are combining all these things, you know, how has it been uh successful for you?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Oh gosh, I have so many stories I can tell you. It would it's hard to even choose one. Um let me see if I can get a good example of one. Well, I think I I mentioned this one to you, which was that I had worked with a woman who had a UTI, a urinary tract infection. And she had had it quite often, I will get people who have gone the gambit of the gamut of allopathic medicine and reached a dead end. So she had done a numerous different types of antibiotics, and she'd done, you know, water and cranberry juice and all of the therapeutics, both allopathic and naturopathic, that she knew how to do. When she came to see me, I uh I always sit with somebody, I hear what's going on, and we come up with what we want to achieve, the goal, so to speak. And her goal, of course, was to uh have the urinary tract infection clear up. So we were able to track back to what caused it, and then when I looked at my map, I saw that this was stuck on the emotional level. Now, you may say, well, what do you do from that point? But because I understand what the content and the structure of the emotional level is, I'm able to then go through what it contains and ascertain, oh, there's an emotion that she's not been letting herself feel. If you look at something like uh a UTI, this is an itis, right? Uh anything that ends in an itis means inflammation. So immediately you say, inflammation, this is hot, right? This is inflamed. And I'm going to, if it's on the emotional level, tie it into, well, there's anger on some label. There's got to be something that is connected to anger. And having heard what she had gone through, because I always find out there's always a before and an after someone gets sick, so or has manifestation of symptoms. So it's like you were fine, and then something happened. No, nothing happened. I was just going along with my life, and I I were you mad about anything? No, not mad about anything. So even still looking at this and using my guidance as well and seeing a picture of her being really angry, I got a pillow out and I said, Well, all I want you to do is just, you know, like hit the pillow and say, I'm mad. And we call this priming the pump, that if somebody really needs an expression of emotions that we and they can't access it, then you just, you know, I'm mad, I'm mad, I'm mad. And then pretty soon she was like, I'm so mad. All of this stuff started coming out, what she was mad about. And right as she was doing that, she could feel the UTI start to dissolve essentially, and the symptoms go away. So that's a pretty dramatic story of instantaneous resolution of symptoms from something that I call where the symptoms are graphic expressions of something going on on the unconscious level. She was not aware she's mad at all. And I can't tell you how many stories that I have of people who they will manifest something, even cancer, and it doesn't have to be emotional. Um, it can be tied to there's there's one person who I I have been working with who manifested uh cancer that turned out that in her unconscious mind, a soul mission to teach doctors and nurses to ask very specific questions when a person would come to them with very specific symptoms. And so when we worked on this, she discovered that until she started to do that, until she started to actually speak up at her doctor appointments and talk to the doctors and nurses very honestly about what had happened to her in her past, and that they should not only be aware of that, but they should start asking those questions to every person that they saw that had the same symptoms that she did, then she wasn't able to heal. But when she started doing that, even starting with the insurance company who denied her being able to have a certain protocol of healing, she finally wrote them a letter and told them the same thing. And they instantly gave her access to the treatment that they had been denying. So sometimes there's many things going on underneath the surface that have to be brought up to the surface and addressed before you can get to that uh desired state. And that's where this map, I feel, really helps you. So you're not just stuck in one area with trying to do protocols that don't necessarily resolve the problem.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

You're you're bringing it to a whole new level. I mean, you need to understand you're talking to a former laboratorian. Like I'm probably like as all laboratorians we are, and this is a universal quantifier, all of us are really reductionist, right? We need to see the world in a very reductionist way because you have to be so attentive to detail to be able to accomplish this and follow a protocol. And and you know, my mind has been expanding as life progresses and you learn new things, and you know, just moving from the lab bench to uh working with people, like even public health, and then even from their working now with individuals, like we are doing like one-to-one sessions, and and then suddenly discovering that the person you have in front of you is a whole universe. And now you're bringing me to the point of like, wait a minute, and it's a multidimensional universe, right? That it is and I'm so happy that you do have a framework to be able to address that. I like frameworks, obviously. That's my reduction, is mine going there. So, one thing that you you mentioned, right? Like how we are as humans, we can be so disconnected, like between our mind and body, our emotions, and now you're bringing the spirit, the soul into this circumstance. But even if we just stay with mind and body, right? And uh even feeling our emotions or not. Um, you know, like if you have someone who who comes to you and tells you, I cannot feel emotions, I cannot feel things, you know. And I I recently have a client like that that came and like, yeah, I I I just cannot feel emotions. And of course, you know, I I know how to address it from the linguistic NLP way. But if someone like that came to you, when you're what what would you do? Like, how would you approach that? And I know that you don't have the the person in front of you, Allah allow you to hallucinate. A client.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Well, let me let me ask you what you've done so far, because I first of all, I think you are amazing, and so I'm so happy that I've met you. And I I think that your ability to go from the lab to what you're doing now is astounding. You're you're taking all of the details and the energy that you put in that, and you're starting to move into this whole expanded you. And I just want to say that I I think I was describing this to you earlier, is that we we really are the experiment and the scientist at the same time. We are the orchestra and the symphony at the same time. So as you expand, you begin to increase your ability to become more and more sensitive within yourself and do your own work to clear up whatever so that you become more and more able to see in an expanded way. So regarding this person, what do you see about them so far?

SPEAKER_03 37:41

Oh, well, no, it's what I see is um see someone who actually does have emotions, but they do not acknowledge them.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Right?

SPEAKER_03 37:54

I mean, it's like uh like you can you can see, you can feel that the emotion is there. Like like in NLP, we talk spinning the feelings. Uh-huh. You could I can totally see him spinning the feelings. And yet I can also see how they are saying, no, I'm denying a reality that for me is like, and for all of us, it's pretty obvious, right? And so, but not only this person, even I can talk about my own self, right? Like, there's been periods in my life where I've noticed that there's this disconnect between what I'm thinking and then what I'm actually feeling, right? And so, and and also the question I have for you is like when someone comes to you and like do you solve it for them or do you teach them that they can do it themselves? And how do you approach that as well?

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So I always feel that it's very, very important to assess whoever you're working with really well. And because my work is so specialized in a way, if you're going to do really deep work with me, it requires that you have the desire and the capability to be able, you might not say somebody comes to me who doesn't know how to feel, that doesn't mean they're not capable. But there has to be a willingness to uh face honestly themselves. So those are the very first things that I do is really assess who I'm working with through my own protocol. And I uh take a look at who they are as a person. And one of the things that I also do when I address that is to see on the emotional level, do they have access to emotions? Uh if so, how do they express those? Do they under-express them? Are they suppressed? Or do they over-express them and everything becomes emotional? So once I've ascertained who they are, which is why I asked you the question, then I have more information about what to go on. So if I'm getting from my guidance to start with the emotional level, I'll start going click, click, click, click, what's on the emotional level? Well, the the goal of the emotional level really is emotional fluidity, right? Do you have access? You can feel them, you can let them pass through, you're not stuck in them, you're not suppressing them. So it sounds to me like your client can feel them, but is not acknowledging that they feel them. So I would start looking at, well, what's going on with that? You know, is their judgment against emotions? Are they not look willing to look at themselves as having that emotion? Is there something in their um culture or historically in their family which says that it's not okay to feel culturally? You know, men aren't supposed to feel certain emotions, women aren't either that type of thing. So I'll I'll start really looking at I see that you actually have access, but you can't acknowledge. Now, then I might ask, is that in the mental level, right? Is there a belief that is associated with that? So, and that would be, you know, for yourself as well, if you're seeing a separation from thought and belief from emotion, then you want to sort of address, well, what's the gap? You know, is there a belief that's creating that gap? What went into that belief that made you create it that way so that you can address it? Or can it be addressed a different way? Maybe you would get from guidance so we can address it in in an energetic way, where you go down to a chakra and you undo wire, you know, there's all sorts of ways that you can address things. So I would, that's what I would be doing. I'd be playing a detective, and I'd start off with who is this that I'm working with? And how, you know, on each level, what what are they capable of? What what do they have access to now that they what don't they have access to that they want to have access to, and what's stopping them from doing that?

SPEAKER_03 42:50

That is fascinating because um, like I coming from NLP and you know, approaching it from neurolinguistic programming, I, you know, I would have um that's the approach that I take is more like what you're saying, belief change, you know, behaviors, habits, like the actions themselves or skills. And and it and when you bring like, yeah, you can do energetic stuff, or you can do some spiritual thing. And I was like, okay, yeah, no, that's kind of like I'm missing some things there, you know, which it's interesting, you know, because right, you're right. I mean, we're multidimensional beings, and and as you're saying, you know, sometimes we we get stuck in like, oh, this is the only way. And and it I think it it is for our own benefit to be able to see the world with all the colors. Um and I um interesting. It was interesting to observe how you actually got that from your dad. Bring it because you know, you kept always saying how non non judgmental he was. And He was so open-minded to those things, right? And so it's it's very refreshing, you know, to be able to hear that from your hero, your spiritual uh hero and and leader, if you want to say, and then and and then he led you into this path as well with his own example, right? And so then you, you know, and and you are doing the same, you know, you're just bringing this awareness to the world about these multidimensionals that we can actually be uh doing and and using and helping each other, right? Because at the end of the day, we all want that, right? We want to help um our fellow beings. And so maybe you can also tell us, tell also the audience more about your uh illuminated being, you know. I know you're also like you your dad did before you like writing a book.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

I am trying to finish this book.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Can you see yourself finishing the book?

SPEAKER_00 45:10

Yes. And and I do have to say that NLP is phenomenal, and you do get results quite often using those techniques, and you, you know, you have become so proficient in it that you teach it so well. And at the same time, I love to move into what I call the presence of the practitioner because, and I think without even necessarily using the same language or maybe having it sort of in in the same way that I know about it, what I would call the presence of the practitioner, where you are holding a non-judgmental space to simply be in presence with whoever it is that you're working with. And honestly, I do feel that no matter what technique you use, that's the bottom line for healing. Because many people have never experienced that in their life. They have never experienced being with somebody who is just there, not judging them, holding a space of unconditional love, if you want to call it that, but um really allowing them to be who they are in whatever state they are, whether that happens to be in illness or some kind of emotional distress. And rather than sitting there saying, we have to fix you, really just being with them so that they can be for the first time with themselves. So I do feel that that's the foundation for healing. And I feel like you and and uh Cam and Jimmy really model that for us as well. It it gets modeled in NLP. Uh, and NLP does hold many of the other levels. They just don't specifically talk about it that way. So um now, let's see, the question you you got a question for me.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

How about your book illuminated being the book?

SPEAKER_00 47:26

The book and the course.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

You have all this wealth of knowledge, right? And and um, you know, like it is beautiful that you've been able to synthesize all this knowledge into this book that you are finishing very soon.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Yeah, there's so much more information to put in there.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

It's always you can always do volume two. Yeah, volume two.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

Exactly. I um so the book is just about finished. I'm just trying to get the introduction done. And then I have a course coming up, which I will am so grateful to be doing on your platform of uh the Next Level Pro Institute. And that course will go over the Illuminated Being System in a general way, and then we'll start to focus on specifics of each level so that each person who takes the course is able to understand the structure and the content theoretically of each level, and then have some experiential journeying within to understand it from the inside out. Because I really do believe you should know the territory from the inside out, and that each practitioner should do their own work in relationship to that. Um, clearing, understanding how you're made, essentially, and doing your own exploration within that. And then it will also contain practices for working together so that each person can be a client and be a practitioner in um breakout rooms and diets. So, yes, it's all coming together. We hope it's I I'm calling it my last hurrah because you know I'm quickly heading into uh older uh wisdom, you can call it. But my body is going, hmm.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

No, you will you are the most energetic person. I mean, it's kind of hard toop up with you, so that's pretty interesting. And Hannah, you know, like when when we hear all this, right? And like coming now from a more skeptical, you know, point of view, like, you know, coming from science or coming from the medical world or even coming from the psychology world, like and when you hear all these things, you know, when we talk about spirit and energy and things like that, you know, like these what people call the woo-woo sciences and stuff like that. And uh which to me it's interesting, like diminishing those, you know, like you're kind of closing yourself to be, you know, to be to to the possibility that there could be a response there, an answer there, right? And and so I I don't know, like, is there a is it really well what are the kind of like what is it that someone needs, you know, in terms of abilities and skills to be able to come to a course like yours. And someone like, for example, me, I'm like, I've never seen energy. I've never, you know, talked to a guy then. Never have I heard a guy dance talking to me clearly.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

And so, you know, is that I I have to stop you because that is just so not true. Uh you see energy all the time, right? Somebody walks in and you go, ooh, they're in a bad mood, you know, or whoa, you know, oh, they look they're they're beamed, you know, they're you may think you're seeing physical, but you're not. You're seeing their energy. They're beaming, they're lights shining through. Uh, you you work with horses, you know. You you've there's no way you can work with horses if you don't feel energy. Uh because horses are pure, they they know you better energetically than than you could ever know yourself on some level. But to be able to commune with them, you have to. So you already are reading energy. You're already getting guidance. You would not be doing what you're doing in the world without that. You might not say, oh, I hear a voice, but you you hear, you have um passion, which is inspiration, right? Inspiration. This you you can't be away from it because your spirit is what gives you life force. It's what innervates every single cell. And it is speaking to you all day as well, even though from the separated uh positive-negative template of human thought, um, of duality, it's hard to tell the voices apart. You're still getting, oh, you know, oh, this is a good way to go. Oh, I'm I should not do that there. And you know that when you've ignored it, uh that you know when you have. So it's not that you're not already doing these things, it's that you can become more conscious of it and start to utilize it on purpose, so to speak. Start to train yourself, just like you can train your mind to not go here but go here, you can train it to go into another brainwave where you can access it because that consciously you're going to get the information if you move to a different brainwave than beta. Beta is going to be really you are the doer, you are facing forward, you are involved in everyday life, and it's a faster brainwave. Um, I think it's like 46 hertz per second or something like that. Um, but you move into alpha and you can start to get conscious um uh information. And that's part of what will be taught in the course. So the the thing is you already know how you will just sharpen your sensitivity, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 53:49

And and you're right, because we do go through life going from state to state, from trans to trans, you know, like we're not always beta in a beta wave. We go through you know, through alpha, and then when we sleep, we can get to delta, sometimes we get to thetas. I mean, so we are that. I mean, that's you know, that's the science of how we are and how our brain works throughout the day. I love the fact that we can be very deliberate and intentional about going from one brainwave pattern to another brainwave pattern, and and that you are able to teach those things, you know, in a very systematic way. So that's very, very interesting. So yeah, and so this way um we all have this capacity. So that's something that I love. It's not like a secret, it's something that we've been doing. It's like the same thing with NLP. You know, with NLP, we also say, yeah, all of us are doing, you know, what what we learn in NLP, you know, that it's just the observation of what was occurring naturally among people, and people were communicating better than others because they were using a tonality, a way of using words and stuff. And, you know, the the genius was when Dr. Bandler, John Grinder, they put with everybody, they put it all together and they distill it in a framework, right? And so it's so cool to see that you are doing something similar, right? You're just observing the world. Um, when I became a scientist, something that really touched me and inspired me was uh learning, and I I don't even know if this is a real quote or not, but someone told me, well, this is something that Galileo said, right? Like we scientists are here to discover what God already created. And I don't know if that's his quote or not, but that quote, you know, always traveled with me because it allowed, it gave me a sense of calmness and peace. Because even though it looks there's chaos all around us, right now we have um there's order, there's something that we can actually, you know, put our hands there or or just like organize it in some way, and that appeases my reduction as mine. I'm like, okay, we can look into this little thing. So I appreciate you, you know, sharing that. And I I was wondering if you could maybe describe a little bit, um, you just mentioned this, the separated the separation between the soul-self, the soul-self and the separated self. Like maybe you can explain that a little bit more so that we can get because those are new concepts for me, definitely probably for our audience.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

Well, okay, I will be happy to do that, and I I will do it. I so this is not religious, this is um from the perspective though, that there is a creator, and that that creator is all that there is, they c they call it the great I am. So some people have named that God, but it's uh a uh difficult word to use, so I like to use the word creator. And if uh there is only the creator, it only has itself to create out of. And therefore, everything that exists is created from the creator and therefore is made of the same thing that the creator is made of. The creator in its unmanifest form is called you know, the great potential, which we're now starting to see in quantum physics as immense possibility of anything. Uh and the creator that has created its creation out of itself has given the creation itself the ability to create as well. So the first level of the creation would be that what I call this the spiritual level. The creator is what I call the source consciousness level, and that's the very top level. So source consciousness would be everything and nothing, and neither everything nor nothing. Because there is no there is no one, it there there is only the one and all is made of it. So some people may call that the ground of being, but it's also made of unconditional love and uh what we call non-duality. So everything comes and goes within it, and everything that comes and goes within it is made of it. Then if you have sort of an individualized expression of that, that would be what I would call the spiritual level or the soul level. And so if you have the the one as a flame, the spiritual or source level, soul level would be the spark. And that spark then gets to go off and create other things. And as that spark goes off and creates, it's it actually enlarges the creator itself experience. So that spark then has its own evolution of growth, and it's also eternal and formless and timeless because it's still in that dimension or realm. And then when that spark decides to have a lifetime as a human, there's a body-mind that it enters into and innervates and gives it its life force. There's a whole spiritual anatomy to this from people who can see it, and that then creates the acupuncture meridians and the chakra lines and the aura, because that's made out of energy. So if you've got source consciousness and spirit or soul, that's going to have the expanded knowledge of life, what the universe is, who the creator is, and knowledge of themselves as eternal aspects of the creator itself. But when it enters into a body-mind, biological unit, so to speak, it comes here to have an experience as this in form, to taste and to feel we're supposed to feel, right? To experience life as this. But for most of us, because there are some awakened beings who remember in their crib, Yogananda remembered in his crib who he was. Um, but for most of us, we sign on the dotted line what we call the amnesia contract, which is I will not remember who I really am, so that I can have an experience as this. And then we have to build a new this, because this is a teeny baby that has uh no experience yet. And so on the physical level, we're building the neurocortical pathways in the brain, and based on our experience and everything that we're taught here. And the human template is now about duality, because now we're not one with everything. We are this, and this can now die, it can be harmed. And so, and there's another this, like a you, that could harm me. So now I have to figure out how to stay safe, and I build my identity on what I've learned, but also what we call the human template, which is dual. So it's positive, negative, and it starts with pleasure and pain, and then it moves to that which is pleasurable I desire, that which is painful I'm averse to, whatever your definition of that is. And then pleasurable is good, painful is bad, or and we start playing around in duality, uh, trying to win and not lose, stay alive and not die, that kind of thing. Not realizing actually that death is for those who have, I've studied near-death experiences for what 45 years. Most of them say they walk out of the body, it's the most wonderful, pleasurable reunion with their true self that they could possibly have. And what we actually call death is that is in truth the moment that we've already had where it can be probably right around birth, where we cut our memory off of who we really are. And that's a that's a an experience of knowing that you're one with everything to not knowing anything. And it's experienced as the first trauma, which all other traumas are based on. So uh I hope that's a good enough description for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

No, that is no, that's great. No, I mean, that was amazing. No, it's yes, it is a really good description. I'm like, whoa, no, that's a lot, you know, because it's true. It it is a very interesting way of seeing the world. And but you know, when you were talking, it resonated so much when you read, you know, when you read works from other people, like through history, right? And I don't remember who it was. Um he was this Jesuit priest, I don't remember his name, but he said something that um let me see if I'm paraphrased. He was like, We are we are souls living this human experience, right? I mean, you know, so he's he was talking also about this fact that we there's a soul thing and there's like a body thing, and you know, and this soul is coming here to live this experience. So it that has been uh, you know, um not only in this, you know, it is a Jesuit Catholic priest, you know, in Christianity, but other religions, because there's always advaita, it's in Buddhism, it's in yeah, it's basically in the basis of all religions.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

And by the way, there is a chakra energy system in almost every single culture. Uh the Tibetans have a whole medicine based on it. Uh, so the energy level is very, you know, this a lot of this stuff is ancient knowledge that is quote rediscovered.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:42

Um it's so interesting. So yeah, there's so much to learn. Larry, you're just opening our eyes to, and thank you for sharing. Uh I really appreciate what I appreciate about you is how amazing you can go from the scientific piece to the energetics and the the other sciences, the more alternatives, if you want to call them that way. And and it and it flows on you, and it does flow, and and I can see how you are able to create that environment of safety with your clients so that they can have, you know, that that full presence, you know, that you can be there fully present for them and hold their space. And and sometimes that's what we need. I mean, at the end of the day, we are social beings, and one of the reasons that we're social beings is probably, you know, if we are souls that we were connected before, right? We're probably trying to do that here as well. And and uh and even though um people who or there's moments where we feel alone, right? And and maybe um decide that our problems, you know, are really big. And maybe we start thinking about solutions that are permanent and they're not convenient for us, right? Um, like for example, the things that your dad was trying to prevent. I I have loved this conversation because it brings a full circle to all of this. And thank you. Thank you for coming here. And also, you know, if your dad was here, we would thank him as well for being a pioneer in that field. And and uh he's a hero not only to you for for all of us, you know, in terms of um impact on public health. Yes, and and you are doing the same thing, you're trailblazing also. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

Yeah, definitely in amazing ways. Thank you so much, Hillary.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

Thanks for the opportunity and for everything that you're doing as well, because you're really doing that too, just moving information into the world that is really so useful and helpful for so many people. So thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

My pleasure. Thank you for listening to Ann LP Podcast, brought to you by NextLevel Pro Institute. See you on the next one.